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Lossless is mainly for mixing/remixing, not listening.


I disagree. As a listener, the lossy encodings I've heard are fairly annoying, especially in the higher frequencies.

I haven't heard every lossy encoding, of course, and there may be an actually good one that escaped my attention.


There's no evidence that more than a very small percentage of humans (if even that) can differentiate between reasonable bit-rate pyscho-acoustic (lossy) compression and the source material.

Double-blind tests have made this abundantly clear.

If you really can hear a difference, you've either got particularly poorly compressed files, or are in a tiny minority of us.


A huge portion of all compressed media files are poorly compressed files. Often these poorly compressed files come directly from music distributor with the wrong compression settings, or with really really bad noise. Remember, many music distributors are working with old systems (unable to upgrade either due to driver/software or licensing issues), outdated software, and plain old junky audio interfaces, etc.

Lossless (when used properly and able to algorithmically guarantee what comes out == what goes into the compression toolchain) avoids the whole issue altogether, and that's what's valuable about it.

Focusing on whether compression captures every nuance of uncompressed sound is the wrong battle. The real battle is against careless distributors and bad artifacts introduced by poor compression settings and often incorrectly coded compression utilities used throughout the music industry.

(ie we on hn might all be using Lame or the Fraunhofer mp3 encoders, but a lot of music producers/distributors will be using custom / closed source encoders, or even audio workstations with the encoder implemented in hardware, and those might or might not be encoding mp3 correctly.)


Why are you encoding MP3 at all in 2023? It's at least two generations behind the times. (AAC and then Opus)


I'm not encoding mp3's, but a lot of music is sold as mp3's :)


Disappointed Amazon still only offers mp3...


Poorly compressed files is usually the problem, and when lossless files are relatively low burden (what's a few gb between friends. I'm not storing them on my 64gb ipod anymore), i'd rather just have the lossless ones.


I'm aware of those studies. Nonetheless, the difference to my ears, in my settings, with my equipment, is not slight. It's screaming-in-your-face obvious.

Whether it's because of the math or because of poorly done encoding is only of academic interest. It happens regardless of the cause. Using a lossless encoding resolves the issue entirely.


I think you overestimate the median encoding.


Those bad mp3 cymbals and the wash of noise...

Higher bit rates (and probably improved encoders) help though.


Cymbals in MP3 sound bad due to fundamental limitations of MP3; even high bitrates can't fix that.

It's not a problem in any other codec though. You probably couldn't hear the difference in AAC or Opus.


Interesting - it's a persistent and annoying problem. I assumed that better bit rates would improve the issue but most compressed music I listen to is AAC where it may be better.

Do you have a reference for the MP3 issue?


https://web.archive.org/web/20120222124415/http://www.mp3-te...

The highest frequency band doesn't have its own quantization level meaning it's hard to control the bitrate when there's detail in it.


Higher bit rates do help some, but not enough.


It's interesting how easy miscommunication happens. I said it's mainly for one thing, not the other. I didn't say it wasn't for or never used for other purposes. People are misreading that "not the other" as though I used a period instead of a comma. Read it as "not mainly for listening" and you'll read it the way it's intended.

Carry on listening to a format most people use for purposes other than listening if that works for you. I can't stop you with a simple dependent clause. You're safe.


And archiving. Personally I prefer to have the lossless format stored in my digital vault and use a lossy version on my portable devices for storage efficiency.


Totally not true. Lossless is for listening!


And transcoding and archiving.




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