> We are often reluctant to acknowledge one of the significant drivers of child poverty — the widespread breakdown of family — for fear that to do so would be patronizing or racist.
If we are concerned about poverty, maybe we could just give them money? I understand the fairly small child tax credit had a huge positive impact on child poverty.
And further incentivize divorce? It's a dual-headed problem. Much of what has fueled the breakdown of family structure are policies that incentivize women to become single mothers. Children being raised by single mothers is not a good outcome. We need to stop pretending that it is.
One way to give them more money and not incentivize single parenthood (which is the issue, not divorce, and treating them as equivalent has always been wrong and is increasingly so as marriage rates drops) is to go to UBI instead of means-tested aid, or, if using means testing, use a means-testing formula which doesn't punish two-parent families.
> Children being raised by single mothers is not a good outcome.
Its a lot better than children being raised by two parents together, one of which is abusing them and/or the other parent, which any change which does more to avoid incentivizing divorce or single-parenthood more than eliminating any two-parent penalty would incentivize, especially for the poor.
UBI still incentivizes divorce. It offers unconditional financial support to single mothers.
> Abuse
We're talking about no-fault divorces. Divorce, with cause, has always been legal -- abuse, neglect, abandonment, sterility, addiction -- there have always been ways to deal with these issues.
More than half of all children will be raised in divorced households. The idea that 50% of fathers are abusing the children is absurd. There is a very clear lack of awareness on how severe each of these issues are. Yes, abuse by parents
> UBI still incentivizes divorce. It offers unconditional financial support to single mothers.
No, it is neutral on divorce, because the support is unconditional.
> More than half of all children will be raised in divorced households.
Will be... when? And where's the evidence? The entire increase in single-mother families from the 1970s to 2019 was driven by the increase in parents who never married, not an increase in divorce-with-children. [0]
> The idea that 50% of fathers are abusing the children is absurd.
No one said that all divorce was due to abuse, but its interesting that aside from your invented numbers and inventing the claim of universality, you also changed divorce involving abuse of the other partner or a child to being exclusively about fathers and exclusively about abusing children.
> No, it is neutral on divorce, because the support is unconditional.
Any government support subsidizes divorce. You are ignoring the fact that in the default state, without UBI (or government assistance), divorce would be naturally disincentivized because of the added financial burden on the caretaker. It substitutes the government as the provider instead of the father. It's precisely what the entire article is about.
> No one said that all divorce was due to abuse
You used it as a red herring to claim that divorce shouldn't be disincentivized. The fact that there are valid cases for divorce doesn't negate that fact that even in those cases there should be massive disincentives against it and that the overwhelming majority of divorces today likely should not be allowed because there is no valid reason for them. There's a lack of awareness about how destructive broken households and families are to children and society.
The fact that there are valid cases for divorce doesn't negate that fact that even in those cases there should be massive disincentives against it and that the overwhelming majority of divorces today likely should not be allowed because there is no valid reason for them. There's a lack of awareness about how destructive broken households and families are to children and society.
uhm, what?
either there is a valid case for divorce or there isn't. you can't have it both ways. if there is a valid case for divorce then absolutely nothing should stand in the way.
preventing divorce on its own does not help fix broken households.
i do agree that as a socety we should do everything in our power to fix broken households. and by doing that, divorces will be reduced. but this is not done by disincentivizing divorce. it is done by removing the things that are the cause for the household to break.
"Money arguments are the second leading cause of divorce, behind infidelity"
the infidelity issue is addressed by better education (teach children that when they get married, their responsibility is to take care of each other (and teach them how to do that))
and the money issue is addressed by financial support for parents. it doesn't have to be UBI, but it should be to make sure that couples have enough money to live and raise children. in germany this is achieved by guaranteeing an existence minimum, and by unconditional extra money of around 200euro per child.
disincentivizing divorce by not financially supporting the single parent is a very bad idea because it forces them to remain in an abusive relationship.
> if there is a valid case for divorce then absolutely nothing should stand in the way.
If children were not involved, I would agree with you. But because children are negatively affected by divorce, there should be disincentives for divorce. Even valid reasons for divorce have alternatives. That may include substance abuse treatment. Job programs. Marital counseling. Parenting classes. There should be pressure for parents to work through difficult marriages instead of divorce when children are involved.
> preventing divorce on its own does not help fix broken households.
I agree, but incentivizing divorce doesn't improve things either. "Broken households" are statistically still better environments for children than single parent households. I also want to point out that between 1/3 and 1/2 of marriages end in divorce, and most of them are not "broken households".
> but this is not done by disincentivizing divorce
Marriage is hard. If you're presenting mothers with the choice of divorce with favorable custody, alimony, and child support rulings, or trying to work through a bad or difficult marriage for the children's sake, it is far easier to choose the divorce, and they do. Most divorces result in worse outcomes for the children. Period. That's why they should disincentivized, and certainly shouldn't be incentivized.
> "Money arguments are the second leading cause of divorce, behind infidelity"
Infidelity may be the leading cause, but it still makes up a minority of divorces today, and in many of those cases, it's the woman who is unfaithful and files for divorce anyway (again, incentives). If you look up the leading reasons for divorce aside from infidelity, they're nearly all various forms of not getting along well. Abuse makes up a very small portion of divorces.
> the infidelity issue is addressed by better education
If you really believe this, I have a bridge to sell you. People aren't cheating because they don't know it's wrong. Plenty of highly educated people cheat.
> and the money issue is addressed by financial support for parents.
Throwing money at parents isn't going to prevent divorce (and we want to prevent divorce), unless you're saying only married couples get the money.
> In Germany...
Divorce rates in Germany are similar to the US, so whatever you're doing, it's not working there either.
> disincentivizing divorce by not financially supporting the single parent is a very bad idea because it forces them to remain in an abusive relationship.
Again, a very, very, very small fraction of divorces are the result of abuse. It's a red herring that ignores the real problem -- the overwhelming majority of divorces occurring today result in worse outcomes for children. The state has a duty to protect children from the negative consequences of divorce, ergo, the state should disincentivize divorce.
you make many good points that i mostly agree with. let me just clarify some things:
Infidelity may be the leading cause, but it still makes up a minority of divorces today
i didn't see the statistics. i assumed it meant there are more divorces caused by it than by financial problems, and that the remaining causes are other problems. (eg: 40% infidelity, 30% money, 20% other, 10% abuse. something like that)
People aren't cheating because they don't know it's wrong
that's not where i was going with education. the problem as i see it is, that people are cheating because they don't feel valued enough by their partner or they don't value their partner enough, and that i believe can absolutely be addressed with education. i don't mean teaching them that it is wrong, but teaching them how to value their partner more so they or their partner don't even develop the desire to cheat in the first place.
Throwing money at parents isn't going to prevent divorce
but it should remove money as a reason for divorce.
Divorce rates in Germany are similar to the US, so whatever you're doing, it's not working there either.
well, i think that is to simple as a comparison. again, not having seen the statistics, i expect that in germany not many divorces are cause by financial difficulties, and most are cause by people not having learned to get along. which too, can be addressed by education. i would suspect that in germany, having a much less conservative culture, divorce rates would be even higher if financial problems were added to the mix. so for all i know, the money part should be working. germany has other problems instead.
the state should disincentivize divorce
yes, but not through simply taking away money but by addressing the actual root causes. it should be more difficult to divorce, but once divorce actually happens the parent taking the children should be financially supported. but i just thought of another approach: more equally shared custody. i believe this is the norm in germany. that way, there is no financial benefit because both parents have equal costs.
Given that most women do worse financially after divorce, I’m curious about these incentives for women to become single mothers that you’re talking about.
I'm talking specifically about the US. I don't know how divorces are treated in other countries.
In the US, many states have family court systems with statutory and/or systemic biases against fathers. Mothers are typically given majority custody of the children and deference when it comes to making decisions about the children.
Single mothers often qualify for government assistance that they wouldn't qualify for as a married woman. Tax credits and deductions are awarded to the parent with majority custody (which is typically women).
Fathers typically contribute more to the financial assets of the marriage, yet are typically lucky to receive 50% of marital assets in a divorce. Men typically have higher long-term earnings than women in the US (for reasons that aren't discriminatory), and courts typically award the lower earning spouse some percentage of the higher-earning spouses future income in a divorce (even when there aren't children).
When it comes to paying for costs related to raising children (school tuition, sports, fees, medical costs), the higher earning spouse is typically ordered to pay a higher proportion of the costs (like 60-70%).
Some of that is false, but not all of it. And some of it is misleading.
For example, women usually get more custody, but that’s also because men often don’t seek custody. Men who seek custody are awarded it at similar rates as women, IIRC.
It’s also not true that men are “lucky” to get 50% of the assets. That’s the default position in community property states.
And it still doesn’t explain how women are incentivized to divorce, given that despite some of the things above, women still fare worse in divorce than men do. Child support and alimony are, on average, something like softens the blow for the lower-earning spouse, not a path to a higher standard of living than was enjoyed in the marriage.
FWIW, I’m divorced and pay child support and the lion’s share of kid expenses, including school tuition. And yet I wouldn’t trade my financial position for my ex’s. This is true for almost every divorced man I know, and I know a lot at this point.
There are a handful of states now where the custody guidelines are 50/50, but most states don't have this yet. And you are right that there are more divorces these days with uncontested equal custody. So the situation is better than it was 30-40 years ago, where fathers typically got every other weekend, but it's still very biased. There are literally hundreds of groups devoted to helping fathers gain equal custody. "Men's rights" is virtually synonymous with winning custody battles.
Yes, 50% communal property is the default position. It is frequently modified to account for things like lower income (or the greater expense of having the children more). There's a reason why the story of the wife keeping the house and the man moving into a crummy apartment are practically cliche at this point.
> And it still doesn’t explain how women are incentivized to divorce, given that despite some of the things above, women still fare worse in divorce than men do.
Women file 70% of divorces. For college-educated women, it's nearly 90%. There's clearly an incentive for women. Men typically earn more income than women. Men have larger savings and retirement accounts. Men are more likely to have pensions. Men are more likely to own businesses and other assets. Divorce gives women a claim to all these things, even into the future, in ways that they would never have had in marriage.
Alimony and child support are both incentives for women (who typically earn less income and are more likely to not work at all). Even in 50/50 custody, the higher earning parent will pay child support.
You are right that fathers may still have nominally more income even after you account for alimony and child support transfers. But that doesn't mean it's still not an incentive. From a woman's perspective, she's earning the exact same income that she would be earning anyway, plus alimony and child support. It's still an incentive for her even if the man is earning nominally more. Just because Elon Musk and Tiger Woods are still wealthy after divorce, and likely still wealthier than their former spouses, the women definitely benefitted from those divorces and the men didn't.
We're not just concerned about poverty. We're concerned about outcomes. Stable two-parent families regardless of income are better predictors of higher earnings for the children later in life.
The money has to go toward producing the outcome, and since the likely causes of the positive outcomes are values-based[1], just giving money doesn't cut it. At least, that's what the economic evidence appears to show.
[1] Values-based: Values meaning attitudes toward hard-work, sacrifice, self-control, and especially education. These values have nothing to do with gender roles, race, or ethnicity.
Kristof (this is an opinion piece, not an nees article or even an editorial by the paper, so it represents the author’s thinking, not the NYT’s nececssarily) is wrong.
The reason people are reluctant to really explore the nature and role of the “breakdown of the family” (especially people like Kristof who throw it out as a facile explanation, who are not at all, contrary to his description, uncommon, this line being standard on both the Republican Right and the Democratic center-right) is that that breakdown is itself a result of policies that are patronizing and racist, both in which family models they favor and in which communities they undermine family structures of all kinds.
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/13/opinion/single-parent-pov...
> We are often reluctant to acknowledge one of the significant drivers of child poverty — the widespread breakdown of family — for fear that to do so would be patronizing or racist.