Were you saving for retirement at the time? I'm pretty conservative with spending, but when you consider you should be putting away at least 18k/year (presumably via 401k, + employer match) if you ever expect to retire, and in manhattan you'll probably be spending at least 1500k/month for rent, plus you've got to pay for food and transportation...

$90k/year in NYC pre-tax -> ~$60k/year in NYC post-tax. State and local taxes hit hard when they're a combined 10%ish.

Out of that $60k, you'll probably be spending at least $20k on rent alone. Factor in utilities and you're getting closer to $22k total for the year. So we're already down to $38k tops.

Food is going to cost you at least $200/month if you've got a decent diet, your work doesn't provide food for you, etc. In Manhattan I'd be impressed if you could get that low, because stuff tends to be a lot more expensive here, but it's probably possible if you're frugal. So after food you're hitting $35k left over.

Transportation: most of us don't work in LES, the nexus of cheap housing in Manhattan below 90th. Most people work in FiDi or Midtown, and rent is expensive there, so either you're spending a lot more on housing, splitting a bedroom with someone to hit the $1500/month price point, or commuting in from an outer borough. Regardless if you're living in the city you probably use the subway sometimes... so let's take $130/month out for an unlimited subway pass. If you commute both ways 5 days a week you're basically even on pay-per vs. unlimited, and hopefully you leave your apartment on weekends, so it's probably worth it. So you're now at $33k left over.

Now let's take that $18k/year out for retirement, since the USA will let you starve on the street if you hit 65 without savings and Social Security is not a replacement for retirement savings. Now we're at $15k after the fact. So you've got $15k a year to: 1) save for a down payment on a house/apartment down the line (unless you want to be a renter for life) 2) big-ticket non-regular expenses, like buying furniture, clothes, traveling 3) maintain a 6-month safety buffer in a relatively liquid form (so... 30k to cover rent/food if you lose your job?) 4) medical expenses 5) saving for children, college, pets, a car, etc. down the line 6) luxuries like going out to eat, getting a drink/coffee with friends, or a gym membership

If your rent is closer to $2k/month (if, for instance, you want to live alone in a decent apartment) you'll have $9k left over for this. God forbid you have to dump $400/month on student loans, which is easy to rack up even if you went to a state school.

Yeah I guess it's possible, though it looks to me like your budget is going to be pretty tight the minute you start saving responsibly for retirement. I've got more wiggle room because my job pays more than $90k, but I definitely have a fear of a huge medical expense or getting fired from my job.

Anyway, I'm curious if you have a different perspective on this. Do you think things like going to the dentist/eye doctor/yearly physicals are luxuries? $75k sounds brutal in lower Manhattan, but maybe I'm not seeing something. Was this in the 90s/early 2000s or something?

Also, I completely agree that if you're making good money you still need to have morals. But please don't conflate my point of "NYC is expensive" with "bullshit" just because I try to be financially responsible. I think you might have a good argument here but there's no need to resort to insulting words and ad hominem attacks.

>> Food is going to cost you at >> least $200/month

I don’t think you’ve actually totaled up how much your food costs. It’s a lot more than $200 per person, even if you cook everything at home.

Oh I'm aware -- I just mean that I think, bare minimum, a person could get by on around $200/month worth of food. Buy the cheapest ground meat possible, beans, and the cheapest vegetables available and just eat chili all the time and you can stretch that pretty far. Add rice into the mix and you've almost got some variety!

I was trying to be conservative here because food costs vary so much from person to person. I have a lot of friends who eat out probably at least once per day on average, and friends who never eat out. Friends who buy the nicest cuts of meat and friends who try to keep things as cheap as possible. I'd guess it varies a lot more than rent.

Agree entirely, on a bean oat potato egg and vegetable diet, you'll be healthy, eating fairly tasty, and spend maybe $100 / month. (Not sure how you got $200, my experience was different?

Food costs can be much higher if you choose to indulge in luxury, but those are all choices. You don't need to eat out or eat any meat at all. I sure enjoy it, but needs first, wants second.

The original topic was how much money you need, not want

I think you can still cut that budget in half. ( What are you cooking that takes up the most cost? Meat maybe?) I spend too much on food these days because I can and am lazy but when I was on top of it we spent $200 a month to feed TWO people with healthy tasty food. On that budget obviously it's just groceries and produce, no takeout or beverages or meat

Also, i found nyc and manhattan to not be much more expensive for groceries than central arkansas or NJ, my other adult reference points, contrary to popular belief

Let me start by apologizing for an insulting tone. Your reply was so thoughtful and constructive I was chagrined, so thanks. It's not about you, I'm just angry about a society that tries hard to trick people into thinking a happy life is much more expensive than it really is.

That said most of your assumptions about my budget are wrong which explains why we disagreed to begin with:

1. Yes I was saving for retirement, like $6k, but half was an employer 401k match so it did not come from my budget. It's tight but enough. I won't have to live near an expensive business district when I'm retired, obviously. Where do you get your 18k figure from BTW? Also, 100pct of any raises after that went into savings, but my point was it was easy to live comfortably before then... Also, why not factor Social Security? It's estimated to be 79% funded so yiu could just subtract 21%. I am slightly more conservative and assume I'll only get he standard SSI payment (the bsre minimum you get if you did not work at all) whixh was about $700 a few years ago

2. It took modest effort to find a market rate $1700 1.5br I shared with my SO at the time, for $850 of rent. If you don't believe it was relatively easy to find i can go into more detail. Thr apart was fine. It only lacked meaningless luxuries like the latest most stylish bathroom tiles or track lighting or whatever inane things they're cominguo with today to part renters from their hard earned money

3. I did not say i worked in LES. You assumed. I worked in the fidi, by battery park. 45 min walk, 15 min bike ride, 20min subway.

4. Anyone who doesn't use the subway roundtrip 6 days a week is wasting money if they get the monthly pass. I like to call it the worst deal in NYC. I walked or biked most of the time, so I spent little on subway commuting. (Ironically, I occasionally took a taxi, and still spent less than if I had a subway pass)

5. Furniture, clothes... Uh these are cheap to the point of irrelevance if you buy secondhand, but very expensive if you're a sucker....

6. Not much travel. I strategically chose to live in a city in which I would not feel much urge to travel because I can find travel experiences just a borough or less away... Or a bit further out, other parts of the Northeast cheaply accessible by train or rented car. The Northeast is very diverse terrain, with climate varying from DC to Vermont, mountains, beaches, towns, villages, cities, a real swell place. I think that was wise, given how much people spend on vacations when they go distant places which, since they can only afford a brief time, they then barely get a chance to learn about more superficially than one could through wikipedia :(

7. Yeah I paid about $400 a month in loans.

8. Cars and pets and kids are luxuries. I couldn't afford them then but I was very happy. Further raises though, could go towards saving for such luxuries (and eventually did in the case of a car)

9. This was 3 years ago. It's still possible today. The trick is i was spending much less on many things than you thought.

Sorry again for the insulting tone!, it's not about you, but to the many people who will never make that much income and would give an arm for it, it's insulting to pretend it's an inadequate income. Its only inadequate if you choose to make it inadequate.