The US also tends to overuse stop signs when a yield (give way) sign would suffice. That is, if there is sufficient visibility of approaching traffic, coming to a complete stop is not necessary to safely yield to any conflicting traffic. Also, coming to a complete stop and then proceeding isn't sufficient to properly yield to approaching traffic.
In the end, stop signs end up being treated like yield signs. The only time they're properly treated like stop signs is when it's not possible to see cross traffic before you approach the intersection.
In the end, stop signs end up being treated like yield signs.
This definitely varies based on where in the US you are. In California almost no one comes to a complete stop. (That's probably why rolling through a stop sign is called a "California Roll"). But in many other parts of the country people do, even if there are no cars around.
Some of this may be that stop signs in California tend to be more superfluous.
In New England & NYC, a 4-way stop is usually used for urban neighborhoods where single-lane, low-traffic streets meet. Roundabouts and slip lanes are space-prohibitive in these situations (they'd have to go through privately-owned lots), traffic lights are overkill given the light traffic, and visibility is insufficient for a safe 2-way stop or yield.
In CA and other western states, these same neighborhoods are usually suburban houses with lawns, and even the apartment buildings have setbacks from the street. A yield would work fine, but either for habit or consistency, it's signed as a 4-way stop. Drivers feel like they have good visibility and it should be a yield, though, and so they roll through it.
While I may California Roll occasionally, at a yield sign I may not slow at all, or only slow enough to safely make a turn. So there's definitely a difference between the two, even if you treat the stop sign as "just a guideline". Stop means go slow enough that you can make a complete stop if you see police in the intersection. "Oops, missed the limit line by a couple feet, but I was totally always gonna stop."
>In California almost no one comes to a complete stop. (That's probably why rolling through a stop sign is called a "California Roll").
It probably depends on where in CA. Have been living in Bay Area, mid-Peninsula, for 18 years and i've so far seen most people (and myself included) do complete stops. And just recently saw police stopped and cited a cyclist for the "California Roll" in Los Altos.
In my experience driving through many states in the eastern part of the US, it's not really any different compared to your description of how drivers in California deal with stop signs.
> The US also tends to overuse stop signs when a yield (give way) sign would suffice. That is, if there is sufficient visibility of approaching traffic, coming to a complete stop is not necessary to safely yield to any conflicting traffic.
From TFA there already is a give-way sign - drivers who should be yielding think they have good visibility, blast through the intersection at full speed, and kill somebody. The article suggests this could be due to the CBRD phenomenon.
Even if people treated the stop sign as a rolling stop sign, slowing down seems like it would help, at least WRT drivers not seeing people due to CBRD.
Of course there are fancier (more expensive) engineering solutions too.
Even then, they're still not treated like stop signs. Drivers blow past the sign up to the farthest possible point and only stop there, if at all. In particular they speed right over the pedestrian crossing without looking.
That's because in America you grandma can legally teach you how to drive and so you learn all her bad habits. It's a feature, not a bug. And your driving test might cover this type of intersection or it might not. The testing is like 50 out of 5000 possible questions. Again, it's a feature (of idiocy) not a bug.
I personally know maybe one other person, who knows that the location of the stop sign defines a line perpendicular to your lane and you're supposed to stop completely before this imaginary line. Almost no one knows this is the law. And sure as fuck no one actually does it.
I'd love to have a light saber for the sole purpose of cutting off everyone's goddamn front end of their car right along this imaginary line. Oh, your front seat is in the imaginary line? So sad...
> the location of the stop sign defines a line perpendicular to your lane and you're supposed to stop completely before this imaginary line. Almost no one knows this is the law.
I am inclined not to believe this. I have been told by a traffic cop before that if there is no marked stop line or crosswalk, there is no legally defined point where the stop must happen: it's just a "use reasonable judgment" kind of thing.
That was in NC. The following is apparently a quote from a statute in Washington State that contradicts your statement:
“every driver of a vehicle approaching a stop sign shall stop at a clearly marked stop line, but if none, before entering a marked crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then at the point nearest the intersecting roadway where the driver has a view of approaching traffic on the intersecting roadway.”
Can you point to a statute somewhere supporting your claim?
And stopping right before the stop sign is what I was taught in driver's ed, not by my grandma.
One of the joys of driving in the U.S. is every state has it's own driving laws and while they're substantially the same, they are by far not identical (see lane splitting in California vs everywhere else, and turning right on red).
Actually, you can't pass the line with your wheels without coming to a full stop, so you have to account for the engine overhang, you can't just zap the cars at the line with your lightsaber... :-P
This CBDR problem would seem to imply that we actually don't underuse stop signs. I bet if you found a similar junction in the US you'd find a much higher rate of accidents because we're all so lousy at driving.
Americans don't do yield signs very well except in the most obvious situations that shouldn't even need yield signs, like highway on ramps, and intersections with islands creating curved right turn lanes. Americans barely have competency at four way stops, the main way who goes next is figured out is someone launching from a rolling stop before the others. There's also often hand waiving, honking, and lights flashing because people are just plain ignorant the actual law, or even common sense.
And traffic circles? Fuck that's super confusing! Americans would rather get into accidents at a four way stop than be confused in a traffic circle. That's why traffic circles are so uncommon.
I’ve personally rarely encountered issues with yielding. Four-way stops are another issue, and any driver in the U.S. has probably encountered them, but they’re solveable issues with basic driver courtesy. They assume basic understanding and cognizance to prevent incidents, but nothing more is strictly required.
The greatest number of accidents I’ve seen have been at stop lights rather than stop signs, weirdly. Driver apprehension and cautiousness at four-way stops may actually prevent more incidents than other systems.
I encounter problems with yielding nearly every day, but I think it has more to do with road design. The yield is on a very long acceleration ramp and it is placed towards the front of the ramp. Then there is a merge sign near the end of the ramp.
I think the idea is that you should yield and only go when it is clear. But because of the length of the ramp, I think they are legally required to have a merge sign there. Invariably people fail to yield, and, since it is uphill, 'merge' into 45 mph traffic at 20 mph. And by merge I mean they just drive on and expect people to stay out of their way.
I have way more problems with people turning on red at the worst possible moment (despite lots of previous safe opportunities) than I do with yield signs though. But I don't doubt the GP's experience either. Drivers are very different in different states and regions of the U.S.
In the end, stop signs end up being treated like yield signs. The only time they're properly treated like stop signs is when it's not possible to see cross traffic before you approach the intersection.