There is no science here what so-ever. Just a bunch of feel good rah rah BS about working less hours and getting more done. Some fodder to go to your manager with I guess.
Who said that 35-40 hours is optimal? How can you even quantify it considering every job is different. I've had jobs where 50% was brainless support so i'd work 10-12 hr days and my brain was totally fine to keep going. Some jobs come with inevitable social BS that will take 50% of your time anyway.
The problem is that management and developers have different incentives. Managers [in more cases then not] are pushed by executives to justify their worth and deliver results.
Developers want to create, but also don't care as much about the bottom line. They want to have a life outside of work.
It's that simple. Let's not go pretending like anything beyond 40 hours takes 10x time to get done because it simply doesn't. It's just an empty thing to say like "you should give me a raise because of inflation".
There are plenty of people working their own startups doing 80-100 hr weeks and getting shit ton done. Does it mean that you should do this at a corporation? Maybe not, maybe yes. It all depends on the trade offs either side is willing to make. Managers will of course be incentivized to push for more productivity per employee.
Places such as Basecamp take a stance against this incentive gap. They're actively working at making employees take more vacation, sleep better, and have a better work life balance. This must improve employee morale and retention. No idea what it does to bottom line or employee paychecks.
As a manger I've had people that worked 40- hrs and delivered amazing results. I'd never even think about caring how many hours they've put in. Then there were others that worked more but delivered a mound of technical debt or nothing at all. They were usually the ones most vocal about working too many hours. There are very few people out there that can come in, get straight to work, and deliver quality. Simply making a blank statement that they will do more by working less is silly.
I agree strongly with the idea that "40 hours" is just as made up as "15 hours" or whatever. We need actual data to draw any conclusions here. Similarly we haven't explored all the ways we can make people more productive either. Maybe if the employees who feel tired after six hours could take a long nap mid-day they'd be able to work 12 hours a day at a high level.
That said I'm on the work what you feel comfortable working and as long as goals are being met then it doesn't matter.
"The eight-hour day movement or 40-hour week movement, also known as the short-time movement, was started by James Deb and had its origins in the Industrial Revolution in Britain, where industrial production in large factories transformed working life. The use of child labour was common. The working day could range from 10 to 16 hours for six days a week."[1]
It is the second time this month that this misconception about Ford comes around, I am curious to know where it comes from.
They are likely not sleeping enough at night to begin with; I know I'm not. A solid 8-9 hours(or whatever you need) will easily get you more hours of productivity than a lot of the comments here think are possible..
it all depends what you want. I've had intense jobs that required a lot of hours but I liked the pay and the experience from delivering a lot. Some of my coworkers went to a different employer in a different industry and down to 35hrs/week + lots of vacation. This included a big pay cut but they are perfectly happy. Just like I am perfectly happy where I am. this is not black and white
Startups fail all the time, many with people working endless amounts of hours. I wouldn't go using that as an argument-clearly work hours != success. It may to a certain extent but clearly working insane hours can also be a waste of time.
It's interesting that you make a blanket statement, but call another blanket statement "silly." Perhaps there are more people than we think that can come in, get to work, and deliver quality. It's interesting that this suddenly doesn't become an issue when something needs done off hours with a short deadline-then they CAN come in and work right away, right?
Who said that 35-40 hours is optimal? How can you even quantify it considering every job is different. I've had jobs where 50% was brainless support so i'd work 10-12 hr days and my brain was totally fine to keep going. Some jobs come with inevitable social BS that will take 50% of your time anyway.
The problem is that management and developers have different incentives. Managers [in more cases then not] are pushed by executives to justify their worth and deliver results.
Developers want to create, but also don't care as much about the bottom line. They want to have a life outside of work.
It's that simple. Let's not go pretending like anything beyond 40 hours takes 10x time to get done because it simply doesn't. It's just an empty thing to say like "you should give me a raise because of inflation".
There are plenty of people working their own startups doing 80-100 hr weeks and getting shit ton done. Does it mean that you should do this at a corporation? Maybe not, maybe yes. It all depends on the trade offs either side is willing to make. Managers will of course be incentivized to push for more productivity per employee.
Places such as Basecamp take a stance against this incentive gap. They're actively working at making employees take more vacation, sleep better, and have a better work life balance. This must improve employee morale and retention. No idea what it does to bottom line or employee paychecks.
As a manger I've had people that worked 40- hrs and delivered amazing results. I'd never even think about caring how many hours they've put in. Then there were others that worked more but delivered a mound of technical debt or nothing at all. They were usually the ones most vocal about working too many hours. There are very few people out there that can come in, get straight to work, and deliver quality. Simply making a blank statement that they will do more by working less is silly.